Do Mediums “Become” Our Loved Ones During Readings? Psychic Medium Rebecca Anne LoCicero. Part 2: Episode 10 (IG Live)
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The conversation continues from last episode with Psychic Medium Rebecca Anne LoCicero.
Scientific Testing of Psychic Mediums
Liz and Rebecca continue their conversation from last week - can you use science-based testing to evaluate psychic mediums. Can you test for their accuracy? Rebecca thinks mediumship is too subjective to test. Mediums are just ordinary people and they could be having an off day, so to evaluate who is the best medium is not really valid. Also the needs and judgment by the sitters (the people who get readings with mediums) are too subjective. Rebecca explains that some people just want love during the reading. They want to hear that their grandmother, grandfather, mom, dad, child, husband, wife loves them, and that they are okay where they are. For Liz, she does not need to hear the love, she just wants the facts and evidence.
Getting Evidence of an Afterlife is Healing and Profound.
While Liz does not need the “I love you’s,” that is not to say medium readings are not very deep and profound for her. She thinks testing is not to judge who the best medium is, but to gain evidence and assess if there actually is an afterlife. Getting that evidence of what happens after we die is the most profound experience she can imagine.
Liz shares a quote by Dean Radin in his book Entangled Minds that sums up just how profound evidential medium readings are for her:
“You’ll know you’ve got it when your gut suddenly drops, like the feeling of free-fall when a roller coaster plunges off that first steep rise. Until you get it viscerally, the most profound discovery description seems like overkill. Afterwards, profound isn’t strong enough.”
Where does scientific and creative inspiration come from?
When Darren of Seeking i comments regarding testing of psychic mediums “You have an effect in reality suggesting it's (the medium reading) beyond imagination,” they get into a discussion of what exactly is imagination. While this is philosophy and not scientifically testable, where does creative and scientific inspiration and imagination come from? Some of the most incredible works of art and literature seem to come from some inexplicable place at times. Same with some scientific breakthroughs. Could this inspiration come from “The Other Side?” There is the expression “divine inspiration,” and while Liz does not like the “God” implication, maybe this level of inspiration comes from some other higher dimension. Creating can feel like that at times.
Skeptics, Debunkers, and Randi’s Million Dollar Challenge:
Rebecca discusses the difference between skeptics, like Liz, who question and investigate versus the debunkers who dismiss all psychic medium abilities snidely, without even an investigation. Liz brings up the late stage magician, “The Amazing Randi’s) million dollar challenge. Randi had offered one million dollars to anyone who demonstrated genuine psychic, medium, spoon-bending, energy healing, or any “inexplicable” abilities. Liz explains why she no longer gives the fact no one has ever won the challenge the same credit that she used to. The challenge is not as valid as she once had thought.
Rebecca shares that she is actually jealous that Liz used to think there was no chance of an afterlife. She wishes she could have experienced a comparison to her viewpoint. What would it have felt like to have a Darwinian and materialist view of the world.
Physical Mediumship and Seances:
What is physical mediumship? Rebecca explains that it is when a medium is “taken over” and essentially becomes the deceased person they are bringing in, instead of just communicating with them. That really would be all grieving people’s dream. This is what supposedly, happens during seances. Rebecca shares a mind blowing experience she had while trying to perform physical mediumship. She never has fully succeeded, or seen physical mediumship done very well, but it was still amazing. Liz shares that she has gone to a seance, but that it was a complete carnival show. It would be her dream though to have her dad literally come in and be there taking over a medium’s body and to have an actual conversation with him.
Fraudulent Mediums vs Ethical Mediums:
Rebecca shares how many fraudulent mediums are on social media. She has had people make fake Instagram accounts pretending to be her and then reach out to solicit money from people. She wants everyone to know that genuine and ethical mediums will never solicit money or reach out to you to solicit a reading. They also will not instantly take money over social media. But just because there are con-artists and deceptive, fraudulent mediums, that does not mean all are. Rebecca clarifies that just like other fields “There are good mechanics and there are bad mechanics. There are good healers and there are bad healers.” And there are good and bad mediums.
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Complete Summary:
Skeptics and Psychics:
The conversation continues from last week as the episode opens with Liz and Psychic Medium Rebecca talking about how valuable testing is of psychic mediums. Liz opens with the quote she closed last week’s conversation with. “: "It's a matter of statistical significance if facts match people's readings at a rate statistically significantly against chance. You have an effect in reality suggesting it's beyond imagination,” by her fellow skeptic and friend, Darren of Seeking i.
But what exactly is imagination? Liz brings up that maybe imagination is a form of communication from The Other Side. Maybe when they say “it came into my head for my imagination,” beautiful literature, beautiful art, maybe they are “downloading” this inspiration.Where does it really come from? Doing art is almost like a spiritual experience. But what really is imagination? Although Liz realizes that is more philosophy, it’s not really a testable hypothesis.
What is Spiritualism and Lily Dale?
Follower Question: What about spiritualism? Where they test before they allow mediums to practice in their facilities. Does Lily Dale do that?
Liz answers that she does not think Lily Dale really does strict testing, but is not positive. She is not sure Dr. Julie Beischel, for example, would accept the testing standards.
James Randi and the Million Dollar Challenge:
Darren, quoted above, brings up Randi, (The Amazing Randi who posed the one million dollar challenge for anyone who demonstrated that they had “paranormal” abilities.) Liz answers that yes, Randi did expose a lot of fraud. But he created a challenge that no medium could pass. No medium ever gets 100% accuracy, and Randi would insist on 100%. A medium could get the name, date, social security number, favorite memory, and job. Then if they get the job wrong and all the rest right, Randi would fail them. Liz shares that early on in her research, when she was dealing with early stage grief, the fact that no one had ever won Randi’s million dollar challenge really bothered her. It made her think that mediumship and afterlife evidence must all be fraudulent. “So I thought there was almost no chance of this and one of the reasons was I kept hearing and reading him nobody, no psychic or medium has ever won Randi’s challenge. So however much I was reading, I was like, if someone was real, they would have won Randi’s challenge.”
She then explains further who Randi was, when someone asks in chat. Randi was a stage magician who passed away about one year ago when he was quite elderly. During his life he had set up a challenge and said that anyone who showed that they have genuine, psychic, medium paranormal, or anything like bending spoons, the ability to move objects with their mind - anyone who proved that - Randi would give one million dollars.He set up a test and people came from all over the world to try, but nobody ever passed.
But when Liz started learning the real details of it, she saw it wasn’t as credible as she had thought. It was a setup, because many people did get results significantly beyond the odds of chance. While Liz does not think Randi intentionally did this as a setup, he really did not follow statists and probabilities. It was a setup that no one could pass a because some medium readings are up to 80% accurate with them knowing information that was absolutely impossible for them to know. But they never are 100%.
Rebecca disagrees saying some of her people have told her she’s gotten 100%.
Follower Question: Have you ever had a message from Randi since he passed?
Liz says she of course hasn’t since she doesn’t get messages. Rebecca hasn’t either, but she said it’s too bad he didn’t leave a code word or code of some sort.
Testing and Evaluating Psychic Mediums:
Rebecca returns her theory of testing. There is an obligation when you're a medium to be able to convey what you are receiving for the person who is receiving it, (the sitter) from spirit for their highest good. And all mediums have their own way of doing this. Rebecca explains that her “approach is very loud and very blunt and very to the point and and I know that I am not everybody's cup of tea, however, you can't try to test somebody I don't believe that you can accurately test somebody and call a judgement saying that they are the best. I don't think there would ever be in number one, number two, number three, The best medium in the world could have an off day.” A medium could have an off day, be depressed or they could have woken up and stubbed their toe and then had to do a reading five minutes later, throbbing in pain and testing for the million dollars.
Rebecca continues that you also don’t know how someone is going to take or interpret the information that the medium is giving. For example, the story Rebecca shared earlier (last episode) where she gave that guy a reading he said was so accurate, but it wasn’t until she smacked him in the arm that he “knew” it was his dad. She asks if Liz remembers “how it felt when you felt somebody a medium giving you that one piece from your dad where it went in and it ripped right inside your heart? Like he was hugging you from the inside out?” Even if you were to get accuracy and you don’t get that feeling, what does it mean?
Liz said she doesn’t relate. As someone who never believed there was an afterlife, she doesn’t need the love. She needs the accurate information and evidence. A few followers chime in and share how much Rebecca’s readings meant to her.
Rebecca explains, let’s say there are 25 mediums and she watches them all work, they all do their own thing. But there are the com artists, who Rebecca wants everyone to be aware and careful. Liz explains that being raised an atheist and being so science-minded, the evidence and accurate readings are so powerful. The facts that give evidence have so much more meaning than hearing her dad loves her. The facts give Liz chills. They are like watching someone defy the laws of the universe. There is a shock of that the feeling of “oh my god, my dad is really here.” Liz explains it changed her whole concept of mortality. Empirical evidence changed things for her in such a profound way that no message wrapped in love could. But sometimes it is too hard to explain, because there aren’t the right words in the English language to explain this type of profundity.
The difference between skeptics and debunkers.
Darren, who is following the IG Live, types in a quote that Liz reads: “facts will convince a skeptic facts will be dismissed by the debunker.” Rebecca agrees and says that a debunker is just someone who is fearful. Skepticism doesn’t have that same deep fear. Rebecca then says she loves that she and Liz come from such opposite perspectives. “It makes me so excited that we've met each other on this plane in this lifetime I've never not known that spirit exists outside the body.” The opposite of how Liz has always viewed the world. Liz can’t imagine not having thought that way. When she was very little, her parents had told her there was a “heaven” and a very fantasy type of afterlife similar to how they told her there was a Santa Claus. As she got older, she learned this was all part of childhood fantasy.
Follower Question/Comment: Amy says that she needs validation too, but hasn’t gotten it yet.
Amy adds that she lost her father-in-law and felt him with her outside the hospital. Liz says while that is meaningful, she gets why Amy needs more validation. She suggests Amy pay attention to the feelings, but get the readings. Also, she can read scientific studies on the Windbridge site.
Rebecca adds that some people get emotional relief from studies and others from a textbook. Rebeca loves and collects antique books. A lot of her sense of peace and understanding come from these books. A lot are philosophical or old science. She also loves a movie called The Physician where he talks about how for many years no one was allowed to cut open the human body. We didn’t know what the inside of the body was like. Doctors were driving around in wagons selling you potions. Those were the doctors people trusted and they were often aligned with the “gypsies.”The doctors often wouldn’t know what to do, and would send those people to the gypsies. The two collaborated. Rebecca ties this in with grief today, “So if you think about how somebody can be in a lot of grief, and they don't have a way of understanding it or explaining it, and they don't have a point of resource, like you (Liz), you didn't have that until you started doing your research.” And once we finally were able to cut open the human body, we still did not see the “mind.” We also used to do things such as perform lobotomies to remove “voices.
Rebecca continues that now we have resources, and studies from places like Windbridge and lots of articles that answer questions. But you still cannot measure grief in anyway. “So when it comes to the medium being measured, obviously it's going to get measured differently if I'm reading you (Liz) and giving you facts, or if I'm reading somebody else who wants to know if their loved one is okay.” People really don't know, just like, we didn't know about medicine, and we used to treat people's digestive system based on animals.
Liz says we still know so little, but we know the most we ever have. But to think we are at the peak of knowledge in this huge universe, maybe multiverse, could not be possible. We know so much more than we did 100 years ago, and will know so much more in 100 years. Given we don’t destroy the planet.
Rebecca says she is jealous that Liz has had a Darwinian, atheist view without contemplation of an afterlife. She asks if Liz ever wants to go back to that viewpoint. Liz absolutely does not. She has so much less existential dread. Nothing that happens will ever be as bad as thinking that will be it. When you die, you die. She cannot understand why Rebecca would want that.
Rebecca wishes that she had a comparison. She always “knew” there was life after death, and wishes she had been able to make the decision on her own, and not always had experiences and had always known. “Existential explosions still happen. But they've had a base of awareness from the get go.” She poses the question to everyone following, if she is the only one who ever felt this way. Also, is there anyone else like Liz who has changed their mind?
While no one replies to that, Liz says the only time she has heard that is when people in grief who are like her start to wonder if it’s possible. They will reach out to her and say she gives them hope since she is so skeptical. And Liz gives them hope as much as she can, but promises to never lie to comfort someone. If someone asks if she is 100% positive there is an afterlife, she has to say no. But that she does think there's a preponderance of evidence. The only time she has heard of people who used to think there is an afterlife, don’t now, and are happy about that, are people who were raised in a strict religion. While religion is beautiful for some people, there are some who were raised in a very shame and fear based, “you could end up in hell” mindset. When they become atheist, they feel very free. Many of the most intense skeptics came from strict religious upbringing.
Rebecca says this then goes back to what she was saying that the extreme debunkers are fear based. But Liz says she of course has some fear about all this too. She was terrified of wanting this to be true more than anytlhingwhen she began exploring while in deep grief. She still gets terrified she will “discover the catch.” Rebecca says if she ever is upset thinking none of this is true to call her up and she’ll set her back on track. Liz explains that when she feels like this, and goes again through the large body fo evidence, she gets surprised allover again, and feels great. Rebecca says some people (including Liz) have let her know that her mediumship has healed and saved people, and that is very humbling. It is very powerful for someone to thank her so deeply for just letting them know what she heard.
Follower Question from Darren again: Rebecca, what are your thoughts on physical mediumship?
Physical Mediumship and Seances:
Physical mediumship is phenomena like when wax hands have manifested, objects move, lights blink. Rebecca says mental mediumship is when the medium connects with the deceased loved one, and physical is when the mediums body is literally possessed and taken over by the consciousness of the deceased loved one.
Both discuss some the frauds too that they have seen conduct seances, which is an example of physical mediumship. But Rebecca does share some amazing experiences she has had with it. The talk about their mentor, Phran, and how she explained how everyone’s dreams would be to have a body of a medium possessed by their loved one, if someone could really do that. Liz agrees, she would do anything for that too.
Rebecca and Liz also discuss an amazing time Rebecca had a crazy physical experience with lights and electricity at a Forever Family Foundation event. They also discuss how it was the first time they met, and Liz appreciates how patient Rebecca was when Liz would corner her and the other psychic mediums asking them skeptical questions. Liz also shares tests she wishes they had done after Rebecca had the crazy experience with lights and energy at the event.
Follower question: Amy asks, she always thought her mom would be around after she passed away, but she doesn't feel her.
Rebecca answers that one of the reasons why we don't physically feel them around, is that you're looking for that feeling of “is somebody staring at me. Is somebody in the room.” When you say you don't feel them around, it’s usually because you're not in the physical position to feel them. When Rebecca wants to feel her birth mother (she’s adopted) she goes and sits on a certain bench and connects with her. She says if Liz would go sit in her dad’s chair, she would feel him. She further explains what it means to “feel” your loved ones around you.
What happens to our animals after they die?
Follower question: Darren asks if we can feel and connect with our animals who have passed away.
Rebecca shares that her daughter has been doing animal Reiki and also has brought animals who have passed away through.
Follower Comment: One IG live listener shares the way she has felt her dog who has passed away around her.
Ethical Mediumship
Rebecca also brings up com-artist and medium impersonators. She has had a few people impersonate her on Instagram. They then reach out to people as herald solicit them for readings, Rebecca is very clear that she will never solicit anyone for a reading. Genuine mediums are really busy. They do not reach out and offer readings and ask you to pay them right away. She wants to make sure that people know that just like other career, some are good, some aren’t, some are honest and some aren’t. “There are good mechanics and there are bad mechanics. There are good healers and there are bad healers.”
With that, the two conclude the talk.